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Chevaux de Frise

Amending the Constitution with regard to Chancellor WA voting

I was reading the constitution, specifically the Chancellor's duties, and I came across the these laws and I think they need to be amended.

4.1.2. The Chancellor

The Chancellor shall receive his mandate to office by being the regional "WA Delegate" through a general election of all World Assembly member nations of Yggdrasil as defined by standing electoral law. The Chancellor's main duties are to ensure smooth day-to-day running of the region, promote a vibrant and active community, and in general act in the best interest of the region.

c) The Chancellor shall be responsible for all World Assembly related matters. Including voting on each WA Resolution in accordance with the wishes of WA members. All WA members shall have the right to express their position on WA Resolutions by a poll in the forum.

Because of the wording of this part of the constitution, I think the chancellor is given too much leeway in deciding how to vote in the event there are differing views in the regional poll on the forum and the actual ways members of Yggdrasil are voting on in the WA. I think this creates confusion and it needs to be clear on how the chancellor should vote in the event of differing views in the NS poll and the regional poll. Currently the precedent is to vote the way of the forum, however there is no law saying that, and their should be if that what we want.

However, I don't think which poll to use is completely absolute . If the regional poll takes precedence we could be ignoring a super majority in the region. For example, lets say the regional poll had 3 voters (like the last one currently) and two were against the resolution and one was for, but the NS poll showed 18-2 in support then the Chancellor would vote against even though there was overwhelming support for the resolution in Yggdrasil. On the other hand if we used the NS poll then the regional poll largely become irrelevant which is not what I want to do. I think the regional poll is important for people who care about the issues at hand.

Here is my solution:

The regional poll should only take precedent when it meets two conditions:

1. Some percent of the people voting in the NS poll vote in the regional poll (I was thinking 20 ish)

2. The NS poll is relatively split (I was thinking 60-40, 70-30, or some number like that)

So in the current WA resolution up there are 31 Yggdrasil voters, there would need to be 6 voters in the regional poll for it to take precedence and the vote would need to be split like 18-13

(or 20-10, something like that).

I believe both conditions are necessary. One stops a few voters from changing everything, two stops that as well by preventing 20% of the voters from dictating every result.

Oh and in the case of a tie in one poll and not the other the other should be used. In the case of tie in both the chancellor gets to decide.

This solution still has some things that need to be ironed out including where exactly to put condition one. It shouldn't be too high where the regional poll would never get used, but it also shouldn't be too low where what its trying to prevent could happen. I think 20 is good, but I haven't checked many past results to know if that is too high or too low. I think the if necessary we could get rid of the first condition and only use the second condition. I'm also not sure exactly what we want for that, i think 70-30 is pretty good to insure the regional poll is used fairly often maybe 75-25.

A problem that I see that this solution shares with the current ways things are done is that a strong minority could take control. However it might not be such a bad thing if there was consistently 20% participation in regional polls due to a strong minority, it would probably lead to more participation. I also think if WA regional voting remains like now, it won't happen.

Conclusion:

Nationstates as provided us with a great tool in allowing us to see how the region votes in the WA, and I don't think we should just ignore it. Our current constitution means the Chancellor can just choose whatever they want and I think that should be changed. I believe I wrote a good solution to the problem, but I'd be okay with just saying that the regional poll is always superior. I just want an amendment that tells me how the chancellor will vote in the case of differing poll results.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, I wasn't really sure where to put it the constitution doesn't really say.

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Forum votes have always taken precedence as the aim of WA voting in forum is to ensure that people actually do come to the forum to check and well, interact.

However, I do indeed agree we need majorities both on WA voting in NS and here in order to effect a vote taken here. For example, in Eireann Fae's Reproductive Freedoms, despite Yggdrasil overwhlemingly voting "FOR", Alyekra as delegate has to vote "AGAINST" as the vote here ended up with something like 3-2. In these circumstances, I do agree that we have to discard the forum voting.

There's one question though - how we'd going to account for people in YDS/ claiming Ygg as homeland and wanting to vote whilst busy doing missions on WA nations elsewhere?

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We should go with the simple solution, i.e. just follow the forum poll.

Calculating percentages and all that is not so simple, seeing how our WA population changes. It'll create too much "work" for the Delegate.

However, I think we can add something to the effect that if the forum poll is tied, then the delegate should follow the in-game poll.

-----------

Separately there are a few other areas in the Constitution that needs updating, I believe this was discussed by a previous Council. I can still find the notes.

One thing I want to change is to make it more flexible for me to call elections. The situation now is such that we are already not strictly following the Constitution anyway.

4.2.4. The Senators

Senators are elected representatives from Yggdrasil's General Assembly. They shall be chosen by way of an election as stipulated in Part V of this Constitution. Senators shall be elected for a term of four months, during elections beginning on the second Tuesday of every January, May, and September of the calendar year.

For example, the above^. Sometimes we just can't do it so "cleanly" in Jan, May, or Sept. We had cases when there were Senators CTE before their terms so we had to call early elections in March, July, or other months instead. The above clause just doesn't work out.

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The problem as it stands, is how to get people INTO the forums.

RP had 5 votes (was it?), and as compared to the votes casted on NS itself by Ygg members, it was disproportionately small.

Not to mention we don't even know who casted their votes and we run the risk of ignoring the opinions of WA members and taking up what non-WA members voted for.

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Forum votes have always taken precedence as the aim of WA voting in forum is to ensure that people actually do come to the forum to check and well, interact.

However, I do indeed agree we need majorities both on WA voting in NS and here in order to effect a vote taken here. For example, in Eireann Fae's Reproductive Freedoms, despite Yggdrasil overwhlemingly voting "FOR", Alyekra as delegate has to vote "AGAINST" as the vote here ended up with something like 3-2. In these circumstances, I do agree that we have to discard the forum voting.

There's one question though - how we'd going to account for people in YDS/ claiming Ygg as homeland and wanting to vote whilst busy doing missions on WA nations elsewhere?

That was actually one of the cases I had in mind when I was writing this.

The YDS point is definitely a problem I missed. I guess we would have to require them to telegram their vote to the delegate or we could set something up in the defense forum to say your vote and then near the WA submission deadline a someone could pm the add on votes.

Calculating percentages and all that is not so simple, seeing how our WA population changes. It'll create too much "work" for the Delegate.

Yeah I was thinking it might be a little over complex but I figured most of the time the two votes would be the same and they wouldn't have to worry about it too often. I guess the other stipulation could just be a minimum or based on the delegates current endorsement count rather than actual voters in that specific poll. Then the delegate could just post the required voters at the beginning of every forum voting thread.

The problem as it stands, is how to get people INTO the forums.

RP had 5 votes (was it?), and as compared to the votes casted on NS itself by Ygg members, it was disproportionately small.

Indeed, that's what i'm trying to solve. I was hoping that if there was a minimum required the people who did vote would speak up in the rmb more to get more people to vote so the issues they cared about would get voted on.

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Indeed, that's what i'm trying to solve. I was hoping that if there was a minimum required the people who did vote would speak up in the rmb more to get more people to vote so the issues they cared about would get voted on.

It would help if the delegate discussed resolutions on RMB, and then point people to the way to vote in the forum like NewTexas did:

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=6202417

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=6145608

(that's one of the reasons why NewTexas is commended by SC...) Texas despite smaller than 10KI, often has more votes in the forum on WA resolutions than 10000 islands. I think what makes the difference is NewTexas's activism to promote WA voting.

I tried to do that a little bit when I was delegate of 10KI, and there's a noticeable increase in in-forum votes compared to my predecessor. However, the experiment might be inaccurate because the time I was delegate also happened to be the time when 10000 Islands's population was at its peak.


For all the rest of the stuff, like YDS, etc. I think don't need to worry too much. We just take forum poll as standard, when there is a forum poll.

Also to prevent duplicity, I have moved the WA forum --- the intention is that in the future, both Valhalla and Yggdrasil will have ONE poll and will vote per result of that poll. This will combine our voting bloc.

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You know, I like what NewTexas does.

Although there's one primary issue - I don't think NewTexas votes as per what the region prefers. He always puts his own prerogative block voting before even consulting Texans. Does he change his votes after that? I'm not sure.

One thing though - is that we really need to up our WA numbers to be taken seriously. Yggdrasil's resident-to-WA member ratio is dismally low.

P.S. Is there a way to open polls such that it allows people to change their vote thereafter? I find that it awkwardly weird we can't do it on this forum.

EnE

Edited by Elke and Elba

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You know, I like what NewTexas does.

Although there's one primary issue - I don't think NewTexas votes as per what the region prefers. He always puts his own prerogative block voting before even consulting Texans. Does he change his votes after that? I'm not sure.

Big Tex does vote with the region; however, due to the lemming effect he has started voting early, especially if it is an issue that he thinks Texans will care about. Texas also has role-call style voting on their forum, which allows people to change their votes, but has the (potential) disadvantage of no privacy.

One thing though - is that we really need to up our WA numbers to be taken seriously. Yggdrasil's resident-to-WA member ratio is dismally low.

There aren't that many regions doing much better - 20%+ is not bad. Now, if more than half of them would endorse the delegate...

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Big Tex does vote with the region; however, due to the lemming effect he has started voting early, especially if it is an issue that he thinks Texans will care about. Texas also has role-call style voting on their forum, which allows people to change their votes, but has the (potential) disadvantage of no privacy.

There aren't that many regions doing much better - 20%+ is not bad. Now, if more than half of them would endorse the delegate...

Mhmm, I counted we have 81 WA members.

That, in Ygg with 367 members is a pleasant 22%, and you are right.

Now if everyone just did endorse Alyekra... :P We'll be a force to be reckoned with.

I find it hilarious sometimes that Texas has more WA stomping power than us (it used to, not sure about now).

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NewTexas has 41 endos right now, same as Alyekra. However, I believe historically they have a very low WA percentage, since they don't generally recruit.

I counted 82 WAs here, but I wasn't being too careful.

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NewTexas has 41 endos right now, same as Alyekra. However, I believe historically they have a very low WA percentage, since they don't generally recruit.

I counted 82 WAs here, but I wasn't being too careful.

Silly me, you are right. I forgot to count myself.

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Another option to boost WA support could be to sticky a dispatch on the region page for every vote. Alyekra's announcement has nearly 100 views in 6 days that's more than any WA forum poll has. Plus it shows commitment to the WA.

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Zybodia is the only one that might remember Lionheart's delegateship. Lionheart was very good with getting WA members to endorse him, with some nudging from Trav-Coch on the side. He was the highest endorsed delegate I can remember, and very popular in the region too. We haven't hit that level of endorsements since his term.

In 10000 Islands when Anime Daisuki was delegate, I managed to get 80% endo rate (which is very good) when I was delegate. One tactic which was very useful is to TG those nations that didn't endorse you saying how you endorsed them as a sign of friendship and would appreciate a return endorsement. Ananke also helped when I first became delegate, by asking people to endo me.

(Asking for endo is discouraged in our Constitution, but for the Delegate it is okay)

Another option to boost WA support could be to sticky a dispatch on the region page for every vote. Alyekra's announcement has nearly 100 views in 6 days that's more than any WA forum poll has. Plus it shows commitment to the WA.

:iagree:

That's a very good iidea Chevaux

Let's hope our next delegate will make use of the regional admin powers to do that.

BTW, you guys know about "Regional Officers" idea right? If implemented, we could have more people able to help admin the WFE and possibly help police the RMB.

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Wait wait wait, Regional Officers? What's that?

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